Forum Activity for @silverstrings

Janice Baker wrote back to me on how Blue Lion Instruments got its name. It is a beautiful story. It makes me love my dulcimer even more, if that is possible. 

There is a “children’s book” (I think it really is an adult book) called Lion and Blue by Robert Vavra and Fleur Cowles.  It is the story of a lion who falls in love with a blue butterfly; the butterfly flies away and he spend the rest of his life trying to find her again.  (The illustrations are absolutely gorgeous!).  He travels all over and various animals keep telling him to follow his dream and his heart and he will find happiness,  but finally, in the end, the now very old lion passes away without having found his blue butterfly.  You turn the page, and the lion is now a sunflower, and of course, the blue butterfly has landed on the flower.

It’s a beautiful story about following your heart and not giving up. 

So how this relates to Blue Lion?  We needed to file for a business license and had to come up with a name in short order.  We didn’t want to be Baker Dulcimers and we didn’t want something too cute or folksy.  Bob noticed this book on our bookshelf and said “What about Blue Lion?”.  We both like the color blue, and a blue lion sounded somewhat mythical and noble and it just seemed right at the time.  So that is what we chose.

Ben, that is a great story. I actually did have a blue tie-dyed t-shirt. We learned how to do our own tie-dye in home economics in the 1970’s. 

Well, there was this lion living in the states sometime during the late 60s.  He observed many of the hippie people during that time doing the ever popular Tie-Dye thing with their t-shirts and other pieces of clothing.  The lion liked what he saw and thought that it was pretty groovy.  However, belonging to a Pride of Lions Den, he didn't want to go too extreme as he thought the other lions might make fun of him.  So, in not going to extremes he ordered some blue dye and when it came he poured a bunch into a bathtub full of water and then dove in swimming to his heart's content. He got out of the tub covered in blue dye and just let it air dry so that he wouldn't lose the hue.  When Bob and Janita saw the Blue Lion in the local zoo, well, they pointed and said at the same time, "look, a blue lion"; they just couldn't believe their good luck and the rest is history.  

BTW Nate, I appreciate the fact that you are obviously using the site's search feature to pull up relevant and interesting discussions on topics you are interested in, rather than simply starting new and possibly redundant discussions.
This is one of the good things about a site that keeps older content easily accessible, as opposed to a FB type site where everything prior to the current week gets impossibly buried.

Good point Nate.

Another weird thing- If you play a lot, your fretting hand will actually be able to stretch more than your strumming/picking hand. Due to making stretching moves thousands of times to fret on fingerboards, while the strumming hand does not.
I've played stringed instruments for decades. Both my hands appear to be exactly the same size and length. But when i stretch my hands out to create the most distance between my thumb and pinky tip, and place my palms together, I see that my left/fretting hand can stretching over 1" more from thumb to pinky than my right hand. It's like the way a gymnast or dancer can perfect doing a split with longtime practice.

Dusty, I enjoyed your story about Blue Lion dulcimers. I love to create crazy stories, too. I decided to email Janita and ask her the question. If and when I get an answer, I will post it here. 

As many may know, Bob and Janita are busy people. Hopefully, I will get an answer.

I recently bought an Acoustic Jam Blue Lion dulcimer. Even though it is designed bigger for jam sessions, I actually use it for fingerpicking. With the larger body, the Acoustic Jam sounds quite magical when fingerpicked.

Wow I didnt realize how many of the folks here are left handed! It's neat to think about how both hands are doing tricky stuff and both need a lot of practice anyway. I feel that playing musical instruments has made me noticeably more ambidextrous over time and there are a ton of things I can do with my left hand that I definitely couldn't before I started practicing instruments. 

Thank you Staylor. It's my granddaughter and for better or worse, she's moved on to gymnastics. 

Thank you @strumelia for the useful details and thank you to everyone else for all the input in general. This has all helped me a lot to get a better perspective on the what's and why's

Nate

Apparently, Bob and Janita used to have a dog, a chow chow to be precise.  They and their hairy--dare I say maned--canine were in the nearby town of Morro Bay for the annual celebration of St. Andrew, the patron saint of Scotland, on November 30.  To celebrate this day the local residents of Scottish heritage had dumped a bunch of blue food coloring in the bay. Blue, after all, is the color of the Scottish flag, and supposedly ancient Scots warriors used to paint their bodies blue before they went into battle.

When Bob put the leash down to dig for some change in his pocket to offer a local street musician playing a cover of Joni Michell's "Blue," the chow chow bolted after a duck, chasing it into the bay.  By the time they got the dog out of the water, it was, well, blue.  Kind of.  Here is an untouched photo of the lion/dog:

OK.  So none of that's true. I made it all up.  Sorry. I have no idea either.

I like what Stumelia and Dusty write here. Dulcimer players often do not seem to care about the change in timbre when they tune strings to a different pitches (and thus different tensions). My experience is that longer strings have a warmer tone, due to the variety of undertones, as well as a different set of transient dissonance (which affects brilliance).

And what Dusty says about the player's fretting technique is important, if one is playing chords. I see many people reaching for chords with thumb and pinky. If one does that too often the thumb is liable to suffer, as it is not really structured well for fretting, which requires more lateral pressure. The hand and its members just are not built well to sustained lateral pressure.

In advising my clients about scale length I ask them to consider whether they do much chordal playing, then find the place on one of their dulcimers at which they are comfortable with forming the most demanding chord without using the thumb. Then I advise that they need a scale at which such a chord can be achieved over the first three to five diatonic frets.

Thanks for all your good advice.

I sold the dulcimer to a friend who knew more than I did about bridge placement. He's happily playing it. I still owe him a lesson....

Was the bridge originally glued, or did it simply fall off when string tension was lowered? If it was already glued it could be possible to see on the fingerboard where it was previously, based on color difference/glue residue.

Irene makes a very important point though. Its also been my experience that placing the bridge improperly is somewhat common, so be very careful that you find the absolute best spot for it before gluing, or maybe just see how it sounds unglued. It might be good!

A fixed bridge can be very convenient though.In the dulcimer group I used to play in, pretty much every time I tuned up a dulcimer I'd check the octave and I'd say over 20 cents off was the standard. Their problem, though, was that they had floating bridges and werent being careful while restringing. A little bump here and there can destroy intonation pretty fast.

A fixed bridge can be nice if you know exactly where you want it to be, but be careful, or you could end up making another one of the dulcimers irene describe. Especially, be careful if you do end up using a book or rock or something makeshift to clamp it while the glue dries. The smallest little shift to the bridge caused by applying the pressure at an angle could move the bridge slightly and could make a big difference in the intonation, and you wont know til the glue dries!

Nate

I have no idea, but I'm sure you could email Janita and ask her. Bob and Janita have building dulcimers since 1977. There must be a story behind the name.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Does anyone know how Blue Lion Instruments got its name? 

I'm left-handed, too, and could never play right-handed on guitar, uke, banjo or mandolin.  My dulcimer was right-handed when I received it, and I thought I'd immediately take it back to McSpadden in Mountain View to convert it...but someone kindly noted that chords can be played as mirror images of themselves and suggested I try playing it as it was built.

Playing this way puts the bass string under my thumb, right where I'm used to playing bass strings on other instruments, so I mostly fingerpick and it's very comfortable and natural.  For al the other instruments, the obstacle was in my hands and what felt most natural doing, but with the dulcimer, it turned out the obstacle was my expectations before really trying!

No matter what, I hope your daughter finds joy in the dulcimer.  Music just seems to fall effortlessly out it!

This may end up a double post..but here goes again.  I found a picture that shows the pins in the head.

 tvmvcibagiaql5keykti.jpg - 44KB

Here is a picture of the head that shows the pins.  

 tvmvcibagiaql5keykti.jpg - 44KB

Hondo dulcimers were pretty good 'offshore' instruments.  I've seen and played a number of them.  That strange head with it's divots with pins to given the strings a good clean break on a straight stick, was a signature item which some other copied, and others should have done (!).  They had pretty decent action height IIRC.  A great instrument for a beginner player, and something you can experiment with Wally!

Shootrj, if you've ever starting singing a song and found it too high or too low for your voice, and started over to sing it a little higher or lower to be more comfortable, then... what you actually did was change the key you were singing in.

I mean like for several examples-

--If i was playing dulcimer in an oldtime fiddle jam session, they usually play in the keys of D, G, and A. I used to use my slightly shorter scale dulcimer for tuning up to key of D, and I'd keep my slightly longer scale dulcimer for tuning lower to the keys of G and A. Changing tunings too often or drastically can wear the strings and make them break faster. For example changing from a DAA tuning to DAd back and forth too often is something I try to avoid when jamming.
--When I'm at home and trying to sing with the dulcimer, the key of D is too high for me, so I might go to a lower key for that as long as i don't have to consider what keys others might need to play instruments in.
--If I'm playing a lonesome/sad tune it would usually call for either an aeolian or a dorian type of tuning, as opposed to a 'happy' sounding typical DAA or CGG ionian-friendly tuning.

I've made lots of long blog posts on my noter blog about how I myself deal with all these things, I can't really summarize or condense them here. Your question is pretty broad and covers a lot of ground. My blog does have an index to sort posts by subject matter, so maybe you can find something helpful there in addition to other folks' fine suggestions here.  :)

Nate

A big factor when securing your frets, in my opinion, is what you expect from the instruments lifecycle. Super glue works well, but can be a serious pain if you are wanting to refret it later. It is common with guitars to use hide glue because if can be heated to soften it up if you later want to remove the fret. Also, what @dwain-wilder suggested is very clever.

That is all that really matters @shootrj2003! Luckily if you ever do want to know more (and believe me it took me a fair bit to grasp keys at all) there are some really well informed folks around here who like to help.

A quick follow up about this post, I was very new at the time and would often just pluck around the melody string until i heard what sounded like the first two notes, and then just figure the rest out through trial and error. This resulted in me sometimes starting my songs on the 3rd fret, and then figuring out the entire melody in the key of G. I had a vague understanding that the 6 or 6+ frets are just two different 'types' of the key of D or different modes.This made me very confused because technically the notes I was using were all in  'D mixolydian.' The big problem with this was that the drones didnt harmonize with the melody. A simple fix would have been to just move the whole melody down three frets, but I was really underinformed at the time, so instead i just added chords to the entire arrangement in what I now know was the key of G. Big pain in the butt, but Ive since fond that the key of G is common at jams so at least it wasn't for nothing.
Nate

I just bought a Hondo II dulcimer on ShopGoodWill. I bought it primarily to study the stick/fretboard, which has a unusual, if not unique, head. it also has no strum hollow.

There is a good set of photos of a similar instrument at

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-hondo-ii-string-mountain-1837332089

The VSL is 26 1/2 inches with LOA of about 34 1/2 inches. No 6+ fret.

It, and the case are in like-new condition. It came with a collection of Vega banjo strings.

It had 8 picks, including the one inside the body, of a type I have never seen before. They are marked Jim Dunlop on one side and USA Nylon .38 MM on the other. They are so thin you can read type through them!

I could see in the on-line photos that the bridge and nut had been reversed so the the doubled strings were on what is normally the bass side. When I placed my winning bid I thought it was for left handed playing, but when I looked again at the photos of my prize, I saw that the two were different diameters. It is set up with an octave string paired with the bass.

The strings were all loose when it arrived, so I don't know how it was intended to be tuned. I have started with Cc-g-g. I'll probably move it up to Dd-a-a first, then put a larger string on the middle to make it Dd-A-a.

It's certainly worth the $45 with shipping which I paid as an educational experience!

So sorry to hear of Dave's passing. He was a great guy and a wonderful builder. He built a couple of dulcimers for me that demonstrated beautiful craftsmanship and wonderful sound. My sincere sympathies to his family and loved ones.

Just my opinion, I personally do not care for pick noise, but that is just me.

Everyone is correct here about the difference in picks, it comes down to the size of the pick, the thickness or thinness, what the pick is made of, and where you strum on the instrument (if you strum in the hollow or more on the fretboard.) It is also how hard or soft you strum and how much pick travels across the strings…do you hold it close to the pick edge or farther back. I guess what I mean is how much of the pick is exposed from where you hold it. Is it a tiny bit or is it like a 1/4th inch. Also do you hold the pick in a horizontal or vertical position. Everyone is individual and that is a good thing.

I have always used a thin metal corset stave to strum with and the metal striking the metal strings makes virtually no pick noise at all. This proves that anyone can find the right sound for them…

Best wishes…

So sorry to hear of David's passing.  He was a fine luthier, and his student model dulcimer helped hundreds of people learn the dulcimer without breaking the bank.  I still have one as does one of my students.

Sincere condolences to you and your family, @folkfan.  It's nice to hear from you but I wish it were for a different reason.

Go for it!

As a general rule, we might assume that VSL independent of other variables has some effect on volume and sustain, but the other aspects of design weigh heavier, I'm sure.  It was probably once the case that baritones in general had longer VSLs, but there are several luthiers now (New Harmony, Folkcraft . . . ) making baritones with a 25" VSL.  (After all, if Taylor can offer their GS Mini as an acoustic bass, then anything is possible.)

As a chord player, I find shorter VSLs much more comfortable.  Yes, I can stretch to that 1-2-4 A chord on a dulcimer with a 28" VSL, but it feels like I'm stretching.  That same chord on a dulcimer with a 25" VSL is just plain comfortable.

There are a few luthiers (Folkcraft, Terry McCafferty) who use the same design and make dulcimers with varying VSLs by moving the placement of the bridge (McSpadden moves the nut for the same purpose, but I'm a little skeptical of that approach).  You might ask them what they've noticed about the effect of VSL on the volume, sustain, and tone.  I have a 25" McCafferty, and I suspect that had I opted for the 25.8" or 27" model, I would have a wee bit more sustain, but I doubt the tone and volume would change much.

A harmonica my other I’ve made two Cigarbox guitars but found a long box in Hobby Lobby and made me think “Dulcimer”.

I’m really new to music,and not really sure what a key is,but I play on happily in ignorance!

Scale length is always a matter of personal preference. Three of my guitars have vsls of 25.5 inches and of course all those fret boards are chromatic. My banjos are 26.25 inch vsl. The length I prefer for the dulcimer at vsl of 27 although I have some shorter than that and longer than that. As to strings, I don't buy dulcimer string sets. I buy strings in bulk for the gauges I prefer, both ball and loop end strings. I also make custom strings from spools of piano wire. Prepackaged dulcimer strings are just plain steel strings and wound strings packaged for dulcimer builders (Folkcraft andMcSpadden, etc.) by string manufacturers who make strings for guitars, banjos, mandolins, balalaikas, hammered dulcimers, etc. So, I don't think there is really any benefit to a longer VSL. If you like the sound and feel of a longer VSL, go for it. If not, choose one that appeals to you.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song.

To me, scale length has been hugely important dependent on what tunings and keys I want to play in. If you're a singer it is critical. This matters less when you plan to play by yourself, but becomes super important if you plan to play with other people, especially if the other folks are not only playing dulcimers.

My dulcimers and banjos have a certain narrow range of scale lengths because I have always played them with other people on other instruments, or have sung with them. On the other hand, my custom langspil I was able to have made in a longer scale to tune a key or two lower, because i knew i would only be playing it by myself and wanted a lower key 'mournful' sounding instrument.

That said, learning to be able to play in more than 1 or 2 tunings, or using a capo, will enable one to play in more keys on an instrument of any scale.

Hey, @salt-springs !  I have not yet reached out to Terry Pattison.  I will probably do that this week.  I appreciate the tip on the CGC.  This weekend has been a blur, so I won't get it re-strung until later in the week.  I'll definitely keep you posted.  Thanks!

@hugssandi , so good to see you post again here on fotmd! 

Robin and KenL both said it so well.

I hope David is at peace, and that he will be remembered in the beautiful sound of hundreds of people playing his dulcimers for years to come. My wishes for comfort go out to his loved ones.